British producer and record label impresario, Iain McNay interviews Rhonda Byrne, creator and author of The Secret, for his revered internet TV channel, Conscious TV. Rhonda and Iain talk in detail about her life and her journey and how she eventually found The Greatest Secret. The original title of this talk is ‘Finding The Greatest Secret.‘
Click below to watch the video or scroll down for a full transcript of the conversation.
Rhonda -Hi Iain.
Iain – And of course Rhonda needs no introduction she originally put together the film The Secret and then published the book The Secret, has put other books out as well based around The Secret and she now has the latest book out, been out for a few months called The Greatest Secret and we are obviously going to explore this book but we are also going to talk about her process because we find on Conscious TV it’s so important that people understand that often it takes time to have realizations and then what and how is the realization change them and there’s an integration of that realization. So we’re going to as much as we can find out how Rhonda‘s path worked and hopefully that will be a very helpful interview for many people.
So, Rhonda you started off, I’ve done obviously some research and you started off as a radio producer and then you were a television producer in your native Australia, and actually I found one of your old films, do you remember this one? UFO’s in Australia.
Rhonda -Oh, I do yes, I do. (laughs)
Iain – Which we watched.
Rhonda –Oz Encounters, yeah. You did? (both laughing)
Iain – Yeah. I thought it was quite good actually, I quite enjoyed it. I’ve been intrigued by UFO’s like so many people.
Rhonda -Right, right. You know when we made that people asked me afterwards do you think UFOs exist or that those people really had those experiences? And I said, ‘look I don’t know all I do know though is I don’t want to have an encounter, that’s all I know. (laughing)
Iain – Well, I think in a way a lot of us would be intrigued but we probably at the same time be really scared.
Rhonda -Exactly, exactly, because of all those people they were pretty scared.
Iain – They were but they were ordinary people which made it very authentic.
Rhonda -Yes. Yes.
Iain – So then around 2004 things happened in your life which turned your life upside down to the extent your father died, I think your daughter was quite ill your business had huge debts and was struggling and you yourself weren’t a happy person at that time were you?
Rhonda -No, I was not and 2004 was a really, really, challenging year for me. A year or two prior to 2004 had also been quite difficult when I look back, so it was kind of a perfect setup, I think. And 2004 we were making six movies about unsolved murders and so that was really challenging to do to make, like a very challenging subject, and so we had everything that could go wrong went wrong that year. I remember sleeping on edit suite floors and all kinds of things like that, and I reached September and I wasn’t well, my relationships, I hadn’t been able to maintain them, and my mother was in such grief over my father‘s death. I reached September 9 and I had two phone calls, my accountant calling saying you’re going to lose everything in 30 days and then I hung up the phone and immediately it rang again, and it was my mother, and I couldn’t barely recognize her voice at all, and she said ‘she couldn’t go on’. It was those two phone calls that brought me to my knees because I had no idea how I could solve these things. I fixed everything all of my life and this I could not solve. I really just collapsed, and my adult daughter asked me what was wrong and I kind of brushed it off and I was in tears and despair, and she came back with a photocopy this crumpled up photocopy bound pieces of paper and said here you are read this it will help, and that was The Science of Getting Rich written by Wallace Wattles. Yeah, well done, (as Iain holds the book up). Written in 1910 and I sat down and read that book and I can’t imagine why I did that you know when I was so distraught, but I did and my tears were making all of the ink run on the photocopied pages but 90 minutes later after I read it my entire life had changed. I knew more than what was in the book, I can’t explain it, I knew we didn’t die but he doesn’t cover that in the book at all. So that is what changed to everything, and I knew that we had the power to manifest our lives in whatever way we wanted so then basically I researched without saying a word to anybody I researched for three months on my own tracing this knowledge back through history.
Iain – And you also read this book here didn’t you too, which is Thought Vibration?
Rhonda – What is that? Oh gosh yes, I did. I read William Walker Atkinson I loved him. Yeah, I love him, I read all the new thought leaders, and I read all of their books I bought all of their books, I consumed thousands of books and wherever I looked this information was there. So, I had a really, really, massive awakening at that time because I realized we were much more than what I thought we were and that life was not the way that, it was actually the opposite to the way that I thought it worked. So that was the beginning and of course The Secret, we made The Secret documentary.
Iain – But just to stop and look a little bit at what was in the books..
Rhonda – Yeh, sure sure.
Iain – ..because especially the one The Science of Getting Rich. I read that book and it took me more than 90 minutes, so you did really well to read it in 90 minutes.
Rhonda – Oh wow!
Iain – And you’ve got more than was in the book which is even more impressive, but there was things in there that I hadn’t necessarily thought about and because it’s not as you’ve hinted, it isn’t just about getting rich it’s about seeing reality in a different way and he says things that are very deep, things like, formless intelligence is the father, there is one original stuff, he calls it, from which all things are made. And that, of course, is limitless, and we think of things as kind of, there’s a limit to what can be achieved or what we can do, we feel that, he even mentioned there’s no limit in the amount of gold on the Earth, and I thought that’s strange but of course. If you have that belief have thinking that understanding there are no limits and that’s what I think really got into you at that time wasn’t it? One of the things.
Rhonda – Yes. I mean he was he really was incredible, and The Science of Getting Rich is really about getting rich in life in all aspects of life. He was extraordinary and it had such a massive, massive impact on me that book and actually, all of the new thought leaders and I read you know I read Charles Haanel, and Charles Haanel really edged into the infinite being that we are. Actually, they all did, they all spoke about that you know at that time. I love every single one of them, I love all of their books and I studied all of their lives so that was just like the beginning for me of an incredible journey.
Iain – And there was also this element in the getting rich book about being grateful and it’s like not being in competition with someone else but creating something that’s unique to you, doing what you love and focusing and that’s where so many people, so many people on a journey they don’t always focus, they get distracted and also in the book is this thing which I know you know only too well now, which is how the mind has all these programs mostly historical programs and it limits and traps us, often unconsciously.
Rhonda – Yes it does. You know gratitude has one entire chapter in that book and so gratitude became a really, really, big part of my life and it still is, like if I find anybody is having difficulty or is in some kind of a slump then the fastest way out of that is gratitude for sure, hands down. People will see changes in 24 hours it is so extraordinary, so gratitude played a big part in The Secret and in all of the work that I continue to do, and it was all due to that book, and just kind of carrying that forward.
Iain – Yeah so after you read the book you were saying earlier that you kind of knew so much more so was it like almost you woke up the next day and thought, wow this is my new life wasn’t that instant?
Rhonda – It was actually instant. I remember going to my daughter and saying where did you find this? I knew it was the truth and so I said to her, ‘where did you find it, do you know what this book says this book is incredible?’ And you know Iain, she doesn’t even know why she gave me the book. Like when I said to her, ‘why did you give it to me? She said she didn’t know why she was just kind of moved to give it to me. I mean, I really didn’t talk to anybody, and just to give you an example of how much I knew it was the truth, the very next day when I was researching I had reading glasses on and I would take them the reading glasses off and put the reading glasses on and on and off and they weren’t working very well and I needed to go up to the next level and I just went to put them on and I paused and I was like, oh my gosh. I realized that I have taken on a belief that your eyesight diminishes as you get older. And somehow or another I believed it and because of that belief that was my experience so immediately I closed my eyes and I visualized myself in dark restaurants reading the menus in planes being able to read in every situation where at that time where I couldn’t read and then three days, I thought it would be one-day but in three days I could see clearly without glasses, and I’ve never used them since. So that was the level of my knowing and belief from that book.
Iain – So, were you aware of changes in your mind it in so far as you know that they talk about the mind and neurotransmitters firing and as we get older, that generally, if we believe it certainly, the neurotransmitter slow down so were you aware that you felt brighter and more focused in your mind afterwards, straight away?
Rhonda – Absolutely. Absolutely. And I became very aware of thoughts, I could before I was I just live my life as a kind of thought (laugh), and as the mind and I became very aware of thoughts and especially negative thoughts and so everything changed. My whole life changed, I became very aware of if I was talking to somebody, and something came out of my mouth I realized that was the belief that I had and so then I was able to change it. That was what I did, I just did massive, massive internal work and my entire life changed.
Iain – Yes so this showed you somehow the gateway and you had to do the homework and that’s often what people don’t realize they think enlightenment self-realization freedom suddenly comes and everything changes and it’s all hunky-dory but of course you’ve got to do the homework and that is you have to stay focused, for that you have to put the time in, and you have to believe in it, and be consistent, and I think you mentioned there somewhere to, that you have to if people are negative in your life, you have to say, woah this is not for me at the moment anymore.
Rhonda – Exactly you do. Really needs to matter to you a lot that you are feeling good which is what I talk about in The Secret because if you’re feeling good you are not going to have negative thoughts, that’s an impossibility. So, if you’re feeling good then all of the thoughts are going to be positive and good and so it becomes really important that you feel good and that is not at all selfish because how can you be of any service or help to anybody unless you are feeling good yourself,..
Iain – Yes.
Rhonda – ..then you can help others. That’s what became very, very important to me was watching my thoughts and not energizing negative thoughts and things that I did not want.
Iain – Yes, and you also did some things that might seem a bit crazy, you were giving money away you didn’t really have, you were walking down the street saying, I’m abundant, I’m abundant even though you had lots of debts.
Rhonda – Yeah right. (laugh) I had so much debt I just had because I was like $2 million in debt and then I like I have to get this knowledge out to the world and so I had a belief in the lack of money just like so many people, from upbringing and parents and kind of a poverty consciousness, money would come in, and then it would go out again. So, I knew that the mind was a program and I needed to reprogram it into wealth consciousness and not poverty consciousness, and I knew I needed to do that for The Secret to be a success.
Iain – Right.
Rhonda – So, it was really on my shoulders to change the internal mechanics of me, so that I was at the level of the success of The Secret and so that it could do what I wanted it to do which was bring joy to many millions of people. So, I did, I would walk down the street with mantras, I am abundant, and usually, that happened when something happened in the company, and it was payday the next day and I did not have the money to pay everybody.
Iain – Wow.
Rhonda – So, I would be walking out in the street and saying there is only abundance I’m breathing in abundance, and I would do all of that and you know what, so extraordinary but our accountant would say, oh we just got a transfer of money in from the UK for something like OZ Encounters we’d made, and I had enough, just to pay everybody. So, I was kind of on the edge, but I could see the more work that I did internally, I began to see everything change around me. One of the things that I felt was that I didn’t feel good about money, and I needed to change that and so what I did was I went and drew money out from my credit card and I held $20 in my hand this was in Australia and then I would walk down the street with the $20 looking for who to give it this money to and $20 was quite a lot then. I would look at every person really connect with every person, and imagine giving it to them and giving it to that person and giving it to that person and something so amazing happened when I did that because I just, like my heart I was out of my head and into my heart and I felt so connected with everybody on the street I wanted to give it to everybody, and in the end I just said, mentally said, show me clearly who to give it to and it was perfect really because a whole bunch of kids just came out of the store, a record store and they were adding up all of their money and they didn’t have enough to buy what they wanted to buy and so I just handed them the $20, and you know it was so beautiful, they said thanks lady, and ran back into the store. (laughing)
Iain – So where did the idea of the name The Secret came from was it something you woke up with one morning, or how did you get the name The Secret?
Rhonda – I actually used The Secret to get the name The Secret. So, what I did was I asked to be given the perfect name that would bring joy to millions.
Iain – So you already had the idea of the film at this point, and you needed a name.
Rhonda – I didn’t have the title and so I asked for the perfect title to bring joy to millions, and it just came from formlessness it just came The Secret. And I knew it was it, I knew it was it, and then what was extraordinaire was all of those new thought leaders they kind of The Secret was in the words The Secret was in all of their work.
Iain – Yes. Yes.
Rhonda – So, I was having it confirmed over and over and over again to be called The Secret.
Iain – And then you went to America with the crew you made sure the crew had the same belief in The Secret as you did and you had no appointments, but you found 55 people (both laugh) and it interviews 120 hours in three weeks or something extraordinary.
Rhonda – Yeah that’s right. Again, using The Secret but do you know when you are authentic when your heart is full to want to help humanity, I just think the universe will drop everything every obstacle and lay everything at your feet and truly that is what happened for us. Yes, we did not have one thing lined up, not one thing but I knew that all we needed to do was land in America and we would have everything we needed and that’s exactly what happened.
Iain – And also, you’re maxed out on your credit cards you remortgaged your house you really went 100% for it, didn’t you?
Rhonda – Yeah, I took out an overdraft with my company, I did, I maxed out my house to the limit. I borrowed money wherever I could borrow it to make the film.
Iain – You know we have to admire this commitment some people would say that is madness you put all your eggs in one basket, but you knew didn’t you, you know it would work?
Rhonda – I knew. Iain, you know what, it is so incredible when you know something to that level and I knew, I absolutely knew. People say what would have happened had it failed, well I would’ve been on the streets actually I would’ve lost everything but, and so people considered it very risky but for me, it wasn’t risky at all because I knew what it would do, I absolutely knew it and so it wasn’t a risk that doesn’t mean I didn’t have really intense challenging moments along the way. Joseph Campbell is so right in many ways of the heroes journey you know if you do have a journey and you do have dark moments and you do have to find the courage in the face of really scary situations, but when you can go through all of that and never, never, never, give up, oh wow, then it’s fantastic.
Iain – Absolutely, and then the film comes out and it was, was it a success straight away or was it something that took a bit of time to take off?
Rhonda – Oh it was a success straight away like within the first hour it was incredible.
Iain – The first hour? Wow.
Rhonda – Yes, yes. And we were the first film to be streamed on the internet. The first-ever.
Iain – Really?
Rhonda – Yes yeah. My CEO was very technically minded, and he worked with a company in Australia to create pause fast forward rewind all of those things and so yeah it was the first film so we released it online. I actually always knew that it would, I’d visualized it going out around the world within 24 hours. Actually, I thought it would go out on television that’s why because that was my background but every door of television closed, it slammed shut in my face, and then this particular day I saw a British Airways commercial on the internet and I’m like, oh my gosh, that’s it that’s it! We go out on the internet and so we were the first film in one hour it was crazy, crazy.
Iain – What is there an element of you that was surprised, or you just felt I knew this was going to happen and this is the way it is? What was your response?
Rhonda – I knew it was going to happen but, but when it happens it’s just incredible, it’s so humbling and now I sort of have that feeling of that moment when we released it and I was so happy that it was released and I really didn’t care what happened from there because it was out in the world and that was all that mattered to me, is that the world had this knowledge. It was, I just felt so humbled and so happy and content and then with it taking off the way it did, I knew it would do that, however, the experience of it was just incredible.
Iain – And then you wrote the book or put the book The Secret together in 18 days. That’s another fast thing that happened. (laugh) And that again took off really dramatically, didn’t it?
Rhonda – It did. I remember talking to Simon & Schuster and we were having a publicity talk, a chat, and they said we think this book will sell 1 million copies during the call altogether through history and I said, ‘oh my goodness no it will sell 1 million within a couple of months. And they all kind of fell off their chairs, but it did, that is exactly what it did. You know, I just knew that you know, that’s just from who we are, that was just coming from who we are, I knew what it would do, not because we were so clever, my gosh we were given everything that we needed, we were the lucky ones that got to be a part of it.
Iain – How is that to go from debt and relatively obscurity, not that your obscure (laugh) but not that well known and suddenly you’re rich and famous, how was that? You have to that’s a whole new thing to handle in some ways, isn’t it?
Rhonda – Yes it was and I was living in Los Angeles at the time where I couldn’t walk anywhere I would walk down the street and there would just be one person after another stop me and they would tell me my mother told me about The Secret and how her life is changed and their life has changed and so basically I spent most of my time just in tears with all of these people just so grateful just on my gosh, can’t tell you and just one person’s life changing is so amazing. I was really just so humbled and grateful but then it got very tricky because I couldn’t go anywhere, and people were taking photographs of me everywhere and I didn’t really mind but then I ended up an hour and a half away and where I am and it’s very peaceful and there are so many celebrities here nobody cares about anything. I mean we’ve got Harry and Meghan here so Prince Harry and Meghan so there are lots of people like Oprah and Ellen and all of those people and nobody takes any notice of them.
Iain – In all the interviews I’ve watched of you it’s like I can tell how touched you were when people said to you what a dramatic effect that the book and the film had in their lives is that something that you were at all in touch with beforehand that feeling to be moved and touched or was that something that came out of your own process?
Rhonda – You know what the people elicit that out of me. I feel such a deep connection to human beings and just think we are so incredibly courageous for doing this planet Earth thing and so I, when somebody stands in front of me, even today when people talk to me about how The Secret has changed their life or even The Greatest Secret when they’re talking about that I’m really, really, just my heart melts, it is hard to explain, my heart just melts and I feel such an enormous love it’s really overwhelming, just incredible love for everybody.
Iain – I think one of the things that impressed me the most about you was with all this that happened, here you are, you say you feel incredible love, your whole life has changed from poverty to prosperity, you’re helping millions of people and yet your journey went on. In fact, you talk about your journey was only just when it started, and that was from 2005 to 2006 onwards it was a 10year journey and you were exploring, you were going to other people’s seminars and I’ve got a list here of all the things you did, (laugh) which you probably know better than me but extraordinary. Why don’t you talk us through your process of going to listen to these teachers learning something, and then moving on to something else because that is so fascinating?
Rhonda – Yes. Yes. Well, The Secret kind of set off a spark and I knew that was the truth for our life here on planet Earth so then I knew there must be more of the truth, so I just became a seeker a really, really incredible seeker. I read, I listened to, and watched everything I could get my hands on 24 / 7. Now I could do it 24 / 7 because it was my work, and it was my greatest joy so weekends that’s all that I was doing. It was an amazing journey and initially, I was made an honorary member of the Rose Cross Teachings and so I followed those teachings and that was a progressive path and I followed those teachings for quite a long time and that was many years and I had a lot of experience, you know really incredible experiences through those teachings but I read all of the alchemists, all of the Esoteric, Christian Esoteric from hundreds of years ago, I just read everything that I could possibly read and then I kind of moved, I was very drawn to the past and the past teachers, and then I sort of gradually moved to living teachers and that’s when I began to follow, I think it was like a little bit before 2016, I think a few years before 2016, I mean I found Conscious TV of course so that became a part of my life watching all of those interviews that you and Renata did and all of those impacted me as well. Every time I watch something or listen to something there was just another glimpse and another, but I had no idea what I was looking for, I was just, I’ve got to find more of the truth.
Iain – And so something was driving you to find as you put it more of the truth and how did that feel, how did that drive feel at times, do you remember?
Rhonda – Yes, I do remember. It’s you can’t stop it, you just can’t stop it, it’s like it takes over you, it’s just nothing else matters but that, and every second you just want to look for more and find more. It’s like a fire inside, a spiritual fire inside of you and it’s glorious you know it’s really glorious.
Iain – So you say yeah. I’m just looking at some of the things you explored you mention the Esoteric Christian and then Buddhism, Theology Hinduism Taoism, Sufism, Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi, that’s like, there’s just a lot there.
Rhonda – (laughing) Yeah, there’s a lot there isn’t there. I know that’s true and every single one of those teachers impacted my life enormously. Krishnamurti too because earlier in my life in my 30’s my husband fell in love with Krishnamurti, and so we had Krishnamurti in our lives for 10 years and you know I used to get really mad at him because I’d listen and he’d say don’t do this or this or this and so my natural question, well then what do I do. And somebody would ask that and he would get really frustrated and say you’ve missed it, you know so are used to get really frustrated listening to him. He still had a big impact on me it was just something about him that fascinated me and of course then eventually I found Ramana Maharshi. I then sort of moved more, I can remember saying to a mentor of mine from the Rose Cross Teachings there must be a faster way? And he said, ‘what’s the rush you’ve got all of eternity’. And I said, ‘but I want, but there must be a faster way’. Because I can think there’s a faster way which means there must be a faster way, and really that is when I began to move more towards the direct path and it was kind of a mixture I think because the direct path included everything of the power of our mind and what we can do on Earth and I never wanted to leave that behind because I know that if you want to manifest on Earth that is what you need to do. I always wanted to take that with me. It was really a journey actually to merge those two things together the direct path and then The Secret and it was actually Robert Adams who created the bridge for the two. I found him and I read his book and to this day Silence of The Heart is one of my most treasured books of all time, I can just open that book and just lose myself in that book.
Iain – So what form did the bridge take for you?
Rhonda – He wrote a book I think called The Secret to Happiness and there was just a paragraph that he wrote he always shared the teachings about manifesting and so he incorporated the direct path with manifesting. I remember there was this one paragraph I was like, that’s it. That’s it. There’s the bridge and I can’t remember what was in the paragraph, but I just remember the way that he put it together and then I found The Secret and The Greatest Secret come together and of course there was all of the teachers that are in The Greatest Secret and all of those teachers became my teachers from my journey from The Secret to The Greatest Secret. Conscious TV was a part of that you played such a big part of my journey as you know.
Iain – Yes because there was this time in 2016 and something happened, and you were deeply disappointed and then you were online and found I think it was me interviewing David Bingham who’s a friend of ours that we’ve known for a long time, and you had a chat with David Bingham on the phone and then something clicked. So, what clicked?
Rhonda – Well David said I’d already realized who I was when I spoke with him, and I said to him had I really? But when I watch the interview that he did with you he mentioned that he woke up from a podcast with John Wheeler.
Iain – Yes, that’s right.
Rhonda – He listened to a podcast with John Wheeler and so I immediately looked for that podcast and I found it and I listen to it, and oh my gosh, I just got a really big glimpse when I listen to that podcast then I went back and listened to David’s interview again and you know it’s really interesting because some people just wake up boom but for me it was like this sort of, I don’t know, everything like dropping and so I began to seeing that what we really are and when I spoke to David, David did some exercises with me of looking at something with my mind and then to look at something as awareness, so not focused at all. After that phone call I mean that was it. I can remember calling a spiritual friend of mine and saying, ‘oh my gosh I know who we are, I know who we are, and we’ve missed it, we’ve missed it’. Like I couldn’t believe I’ve done all of those years you know, and I think I’d maybe heard teachers talk about it like I’d already been following Mooji and Adyashanti, so they must’ve mentioned it but somehow it didn’t work, it didn’t penetrate, but that interview with David that just changed my life and that was, I listen to that on 10 January 2016. See I remember the exact day. That was, that would be my greatest awakening.
Iain – And you had the awakening, you had the realization, how did that change thinking practically in your life?
Rhonda – Everything changed then because there is just this peace that came over me, however, I knew there was work to be done because the mind would come in and I could be awareness but then the mind would come in and so there was kind of a yo-yo kind of time awareness and the mind and awareness and the mind and ego, and so the last four years really is what I have dedicated to just being who I am, and resting as awareness and so it was you know it’s a little bit of a journey but the thing is, that you just have this happiness arise within you there’s no mistaking it, you know the happiness that was always there just begins to arise and take over your life, and the most beautiful feeling is that you don’t need anything to change, everything is just fine as it is.
Iain – Yes but you’ve created this space for that hadn’t you, to allow to a large extent that for so many years, so many of us, we hear things and years later we realize, gosh that’s it, that’s important, that’s my next step, that’s my awakening or whatever. Of course, there wasn’t a space before it was the Thought Vibration book where I remember reminding me again about how you slow down the mind, if you slow down the mind of course there’s more space for things to come in and in a more subtle way you’re not racing around feeling everything up and I’m sure that’s what happened with you, it was the right time and you had done the work, and that I keep stressing that a lot these days in interviews because so many people still think something happens and it’s wonderful and it’s not quite like that.
Rhonda – Yeah, yeah. I did a lot of work I have to say and continue to just be aware but now there’s just a happiness a foundation of happiness that’s always there no matter what is going on so this beautiful happiness and just that one of the other big things that I’ve noticed is fear dissipating. Not living in a foundation of fear as well and just it’s really nice to not have a strong ego in your life. It’s really great to have that sort of dissolving, you know because you don’t mind about what anyone else thinks you don’t mind about anything there’s nothing to protect, there’s nothing to defend, its freedom you know it really is.
Iain – So the realization was of course as you said that we are awareness and awareness is the base of everything and I remember you know Renata and I had quite a significant awakening when David Bingham was at our house and he came for lunch one day after we’re done the interviews we got a bit friendly with him and we saw him a couple of times and he just said these words and the words were, ‘well there’s the changing and then there’s a never changing’. You think about it, the changing form is always changing but never changing awareness the formless and of course it ties in so well with quantum physics as well. So, when I interview with quantum field physics they talk about the chaos and the chaos his form and the order is the formless because in the formless there has to be order because there’s no room for it, there’s no space for chaos (both laughing), and what interests me is, I think you still work with the teacher, don’t you? You have a female woman that used to work with.
Rhonda – Yes I do.
Iain – And it’s like I guess your refining things the whole time is that how you see it?
Rhonda – Yes and I see it at her I look at her my teacher and look at her and the way that she is and I just, she’s just, my gosh so amazing, every question that anybody asks her, the answer is incredible and just makes total sense and so she’s very inspiring to go even higher level of happiness and peace to keep going and so yeah she’s helped me a lot because she’s very tough on me and that is what I wanted I didn’t want to waste time. I wasn’t 20 years old and so I wanted someone somebody to be super, super tough on me and she was really tough and so that kind of brought, that helped break you know those tendencies and the mind programs and everything she was really good at spotting those and she would just say something and I would be like, oh I see it, do you know some tendency and see your belief that I’ve had for ages and ages and it would just crumble in front of me so she also helped me, which is also in The Greatest Secret which is I just think is one of the most incredible things in The Greatest Secret is the way to release negative emotions and negative thoughts and so that’s something I’ve been doing for four years. I don’t anymore it’s so rare for me to feel impatient or disappointment or anything like that and that’s just from the work of releasing all of those things and of course each time you release them you get happier.
Iain – Yes and you talk, I should say in the book, you certainly talk and there are techniques there. There are clues how to clear yourself of these negative patterns and it’s down to whether somebody wants to do it or commit themselves and you’re just so committed and you’re still our commission still with your teacher now just there’s a level of your commitment. So, what does freedom ultimately mean to you? Do you feel completely free, that the way you talk you’re almost completely free, but do you still feel there’s something, unclarity there that still needs to fade away in its own time?
Rhonda – I’m certainly freer than I ever imagined I could be but I would say there’s still some things there if I look at my teacher I can see my teacher is total pure freedom and so I think they’re so the subconscious has still got probably a few things going on and they would be very deep and may be there from the collective unconscious you know but certainly, do you know Iain, it’s like every day I feel that I’m freer.
Iain – Every day?
Rhonda – Yep, every day I wake up I feel happier and freer and yeah, and it’s just from doing everything that I wrote in the book. I mean I wrote what I did, what worked for me and it’s quite simple really and I think you know the minds wants to complicate it, and we want to complicate it, but awareness is really really simple, I mean is here all of the time. Even just when you just say the word, it is there, you know it’s in the foreground it’s right there, so beautiful and right there. And that’s all it takes is just noticing it and then it gets stronger, and mind gets weaker.
Iain – Yeah, well awareness is always there but of course you have to have as we talked about earlier with the space to let it be more in the foreground and this is what people that do wake up, they often say well the background became the foreground, and the foreground became the background and that’s it really isn’t it? And a lot of people can say yes, they know they’re awareness and then things happen and they’re all over the place.
Rhonda – And you have to be careful that the mind doesn’t sort of trick you and you turn it into a concept, you know, because it’s not awareness is not a concept, you know it’s a being. All it is, I mean Lester Levenson who is featured in the book and a teacher that, oh my gosh, love him so much, he just says everything so simply, he just says you are yourself without the mind, that’s what you are, just without the mind.
Iain – Yeah, and it is something that isn’t always easy to spot what is the unique expression as a human being of you without all your historical conditioning because they’re mining together, interwoven and I think I find that myself, yes, I me, and of course that me isn’t necessarily the purist me because it has all my historical patterns that I haven’t yet dissipated.
Rhonda – Yes.
Iain – I guess that’s what, I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but I guess maybe that’s to some extent what your ongoing journey still is, just to purify and purify, is that what it is?
Rhonda – It is, it is you know one of the traps that I had was I was looking for another version for quite a long time even though my teacher would say you were here now and I would be looking, I was kind of looking for something else that wasn’t, some other form of me, the infinite being of me I was looking for that and for quite a while, and then I just realized okay so here’s what it is just take away the name, and take away the history of this body form, take away the Rhonda and take away the history and take away the body and what’s left, is who I really am. It’s just taking away the mind and the body and what’s left and then me that I feel myself to be, is the being, just not with any of those other stories, you know it’s just what’s left, and it is here right now it’s here, here it is it’s not over there, or it’s right here, and it if you could just take away the name and the history, and the body and the mind then what’s left is you, and it’s the you, you feel yourself to be, it just doesn’t have any baggage, and the you that you feel yourself to be is actually gloriously, gloriously happy.
Iain – The me that you feel yourself to be is gloriously happy. And you look gloriously happy at the moment. (both laughing)
Rhonda – I do yes.
Iain – And you do and you’re a living example of that and you say I pulled some quotes. and I should show the book The Greatest Secret and one quote I pulled out, “The only purpose, the only purpose of life is to be totally who you are”.
Rhonda – Yes. Gosh yes.
Iain – And that’s where you got to isn’t it?
Rhonda – Yes.
Iain – And that’s where real seekers finally get to the only purpose in life is to be totally who you are. And actually, if I look back at right at the beginning of your journey The Science of Getting Rich in his own way.
Rhonda – Oh that’s gorgeous.
Iain – He says that it’s not about pleasing people and he says don’t give charity to the poor you encourage the poor to start in their own way when they can take responsibility and find their own way in life and that sometimes difficult to do but it’s the key isn’t it?
Rhonda – It is the key, and then when you’re free just everything is a miracle Every moment is a miracle and just the joy and the love and the gratitude, it’s not gratitude to somebody, it’s just gratitude for being, all of it is just so wonderful and that’s all I mean it’s the one thing to do in this lifetime, it really is the one thing to do, because then everything else falls into place. Everything that you need or want and so it is really important to me that not just to suggest you go off into a cave cross-legged or something like that because we’re here on planet Earth to have this experience on planet Earth of knowing who you really are and there’s no end to you and the beauty, and the beauty the absolute beauty that we are, the innocence that we are, like oh my gosh. (laugh) I just think we are so incredible to take this on you know because it can be tough right?
Iain – Well it’s that there are people with huge challenges, and you know when Renata and I are involved in supporting a charity called The Prison Phoenix Trust and what that does is it supports through meditation and yoga people in prison. Now they really do have a challenge but some of them do rights to it and they use that time in the prison cell it’s only small cells to do their yoga, to do their meditation, some get up at five in the morning when the prisons quieter, do their meditation and then somehow they find the beginning of some peace but you and I can I comparatively lucky because we’re in the free world we’ve had our challenges, of course, some people do find it tough but as you say the potential is, people are also very sick but the potential is somewhere there in their own way.
Rhonda – Well yes and then everything that is happening is to help lead us to wake up, you know as well and so I mean I woke up through difficult times, and I’m on both occasions the two big awakenings were in challenging times and so the challenging times help us they help us question and question about life. The challenges have their place too, and it’s not easy going through those times but then every time I would come out of one of those, I was so grateful. I remember my mentor would say to me at the end of your journey he said, ‘you will be so grateful to God for all of the difficulties that you faced’. I did not believe him (laughing) because at that time I was going through an intensely difficult time and he told me I’d be grateful for that time and I just, I really, I couldn’t believe I would ever be grateful for that challenge, but do you know what I am so grateful, I am so grateful for all of it. Yeah.
Iain – We’ve got three- or four minutes left Rhonda is there anything else that you want to say that’s in The Greatest Secret that you think is so important that people just have a look at that particular page or exercise because you have some exercises in there?
Rhonda – Yes. It’s a book that I hope people will find simple enough it’s not easy to write about something that’s invisible, but I tend to write about things that are invisible. (laugh) As I did with The Secret as well but there’s just a promise that when you realize who you are everything will fall into place. You know you won’t suffer from anxiety or stress or any of those things anymore there might be a moment that comes but it will just pass on by and to live your life without fear of death in particular, and without fear anyway is just the most glorious way to live your life so I would just urge anybody, if you feel there are a lot of problems that you have or you’re going through any challenges I want you to know there’s a way out, and the way out is absolutely gorgeous and I think it’s just lined with rose petals and if you can just take the steps that are necessary and everybody can do it because it’s who you are, right? It’s not this, it is who you are and it so it’s just lifting up that blanket that’s covering up who you are. I would say to anybody that is wanting to be free but I would say to you in particular and to Renata thank you, because I have just I’ve had so many wonderful, wonderful hours watching your interviews and having so many aha moments, and replaying things over and over again with guests, and so I want to say thank you to both of you because you’re really made a big difference in my life and I’m sure so many other people‘s lives as well. Yeah, Conscious TV it’s been wonderful for me and really such a service that you have both done.
Iain – Yeah, you see it’s been a journey when I had the idea all those years ago it was about somehow a progression of my journey and Renata’s journey, and we got so much of doing the interviews so as they say it’s a complete win-win situation and it continues to be, and we do less interviews now but the ones we do we still value so much. So, I’m looking at the clock and we’ve pretty much got there in the hour, I really appreciate your time and your wisdom Rhonda, and good luck with the further stages of your journey, all the further stages of awareness’s journey.
Rhonda – Thank you Iain so much and thank you for having me.
Iain – And thank you, everyone, for watching Conscious TV and I do hope we see you again soon. Goodbye.